The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

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Sexy Mom Sexy Mom
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The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

We have had the talk a few times. It's been useless. My son now wants me to force his dad to pay attention to what he eats and he says that his father is incapable of doing something effective about his weight because it's a psychological issue and therefore has to be controlled-policed would be the word closest to what he really means- by someone else, preferably me as I'm his wife. He's willing to put his part of effort into talking to his dad, but it seems that the "weight" of this issue-pun intended-is resting on my shoulders. So now, apart from the guilt for feeling attracted to other men and doing nothing about it-for now- and getting shouted at for petty reasons, never mind when I really do something wrong. Then I just want to get as far and as fast possible. I fear that my sons will blame me for whatever happens to their dad if I don't go and say "Hey, you're gonna die on us? Have you no shame?" or something like that, nasty and totally un-me. I've never been bossy, though my husband will deny it because since he doesn't take matters seriously I have to make decisions and since I'm alone most of the time-he works in a different city-I have to make the house go smoothly as possible for the rest of us, shopping, cleaning, caring for my mom who's old and has dementia, working two jobs aside from that. I've brought the subject up clearly but nicely, expressed my feelings...all to no avail. What bugs me the most is my eldest sons' attitude. I know he's just worried about his dad, but it seems to all revert back to ME. I know there are people out there with much greater problems than mine right now, but mine will be either a life or death issue, or a seriously impaired husband for life to look after issue in the not so distant future. Why can't this be about him, because that's where the problem begins. It seems that if I'm bugged by it, I have to do something. He can be dead or rot in a wheelchair but it's not as important to him it seems...I'm married to a child, not a man. I can't conceive having to do this, but things are just stuck and it's starting to affect the rest of the family seriously. And to my surprise, they all turn to ME in search of an answer, as in, you solve it 'cos you're the only adult in this marriage. He's incapable of doing anything or even asking for help. How much will I be expected t do? My son seems to think that feeding him-literally-might be a tiny bit too much, but anything else would be "doing what you should do, if you love him". And that would imply getting shouted at for ?weeks?months?...till he theoretically got the knack of it and started doing it by himself...if he does. I just can't cope with that. I already get  shouted at regularly, out of the blue because of his grumpiness, for all my "faults", so any more would definitely be too much for me, apart from the fact of how it affects my younger son and my mom, who get literally sick from hearing him and me argue back and forth, though I usually back out of the conversation after the second shout as my mind won't work while I'm being shouted at. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but my son's talk this weekend is still ringing in my ears. I know that if worse comes to worse, I'm gonna be the bad guy because he's so funny and nice outside of the house. People tend to see him as nice and a good man. He's not a bad person but it's getting hard to live with him. Oh, and another thing...I have this internet friend-a man, yes-who my husband and my son don't like, not for any reason in particular-they don't know him-, just because, as they say,"we can't be happy about you talking to a guy we don't know, even if it's just on the internet. Males have to watch out for their females. It's biological that we be jealous". It doesn't mean that I'm forgetting my duties. As I said, I work two jobs, care for my mom, the house and my younger son. Things get done, meals cooked, clothes washed, errands run...I don't know what more they want. I think it's so unfair for them to have this attitude, as I have always supported their hobbies and left mine on standby. Or like I have to be monitored because someone might trick me, cos I'm so dumb...Reality shows it hasn't happened in over forty years, but still....Are they just worried, possessive, ...what? I'm feeling more and more attracted to this internet guy because of all this, though I am perfectly aware that it'll get me nowhere and that it's an impossible relationship-lots of differences-, but still it got me thinking what if...I'm not going to act on it because it wouldn't be fair to anyone, but right now I don't know what I feel for my husband. I want the best for him, but I'm not sure I'll be able to take it if things get worse. If I do, it'll be for my sons. Have to stop or I'll choke on my own tears. Thanks for listening.
Mr Wibble Mr Wibble
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

I feel for you and understand. Not a dissimilar situation here either though I don't think quite as "advanced" as yours. Still sleeping in the same bed, but it won't be much longer before that's physically impossible. I haven't had to deal with spousal responsibility being abrogated by one and passed to the other, but I certainly understand living lives vicariously. There are so many things I would like to do on a personal level but as chief taxi driver, bull payer, cook, cleaner, washer and all round general dogsbody I don't have time for me. The few things I find time for are rather short lived and transient.

I guess others don't see me being able to live her life for her, but just to support and that's what I do. I do think your children's expectations are unreasonable give you're dealing with an adult but I think in many respects children think that parents always have the answer and tend to put them (certainly the more able one) on a pedestal and expect them to be able to do almost anything. It was certainly a few years into my adulthood that I realised that my parents are just people and that not everything can be fixed. I've certainly had to remind my oldest son that I am just a man and that I get it wrong not infrequently too but he kind of hero worships me and that scares me a bit; I'm fully aware of my limitations.

I think my kids maybe understand a little better than yours but I've also never tried to shield them from their mother's reality; they've seen it develop themselves.

I've found myself considering an affair - lord knows it would be nice to have sex with a woman smaller than me and that shouldn't be difficult, I'm 6'3" and the first to admit I'm carrying a few extra middle age pounds too, just not 120 of them. I'm working on that as it goes; I sort of hoped that my example might provide some encouragement and she would come along for the ride, but sadly it hasn't been so.

Personally I'm giving it a year - maybe you should set a limit and stick to it. Most of the stories on here indicate that things are unlikely to change though some have success. The ones that annoy me the most though are where the fat spouse is ditched and then slims down; that's just evil. If you weren't prepared to make an effort when together and you do after separation, what does that say about the contempt that you hold towards your erstwhile partner.

And just to day it helps if you add paragraphs - it's easy for my aging eyes to follow.
Mme.X Mme.X
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Sexy Mom
Sexy Mom wrote
I fear that my sons will blame me for whatever happens to their dad if I don't go and say "Hey, you're gonna die on us? Have you no shame?" or something like that, nasty and totally un-me.
Well, you can talk with your sons and explain that while you are concerned with the "family's health," you can't always control it. Explain that you try to cook healthy, but that providing options is not itself a limitation, and that you are not into running a police state. Then talk about how you and your sons can practice being healthy.  At any rate, that's where I am at the moment, and actually, the results have been better with respect to my husband, too.
Sexy Mom wrote
I already get  shouted at regularly, out of the blue because of his grumpiness, for all my "faults", so any more would definitely be too much for me, apart from the fact of how it affects my younger son and my mom, who get literally sick from hearing him and me argue back and forth, though I usually back out of the conversation after the second shout as my mind won't work while I'm being shouted at.
That's hard.  I hear you. But it also suggests that the issues here are way bigger than just food or fat.  (Thank you, Mme. X, that thought had never occurred to me.)
Sexy Mom wrote
Oh, and another thing...I have this internet friend-a man ... I'm feeling more and more attracted to this internet guy because of all this, though I am perfectly aware that it'll get me nowhere and that it's an impossible relationship-lots of differences-, but still it got me thinking what if...
Oh, oh, oh, oh ... been there!  And BE CAREFUL!!!!  It is so very normal to want to be affirmed, and I felt the temptation in person as strongly as any emotion I've ever felt in my life (thankfully, we were able to spend four hours in a café in the middle of the night expressing our feelings and thinking through why it would be both wrong and imprudent, and for me, just knowing how he felt went further than anything we would actually have done.  And I remain grateful to him in equal parts for his passionate affirmation and his gentlemanly restraint.

But internet-wise, yai-yai-yai.  I mean, I'm the first one to admit that -- despite the fact that I am temperamentally and generationally averse to virtual relationships, and despite a medium that is a realm of air and electricity -- these fleeting letters can express remarkably distinct souls containing deep and honest truths and longings.  They can and do, and have been for me a saving grace at moments when I've felt lonely and  sad.

But the other thing I keep on learning is that the internet is also a place where people are irresistibly drawn to becoming certain personae.  And I had an experience with a guy with whom I corresponded who turned out to be not at all who I thought he was.  It was not, I maintain, his fault.  He fell into a role that he discerned I needed.  And, no, and thankfully, I never went so far as to meet him.  But, boy, I was shaken!

And it made me think about what I want, the truth I seek.  

Your husband has problems, as does your marriage.  But it is, at the moment, what you have, and what you have to work with.  Against it, the temptation of fantasy is overwhelming, especially interactive fantasy, which pretty much summarizes the internet.  But remember that it  is fantasy, especially if you are looking for erotic affirmation.  (Even MFS has had its share of, er, creative fiction writers, or people who try to use the forum to manipulate others instead of offering their hearts and thoughts in a spirit of human solidarity sensitive to honest feelings of brokenness and vulnerability.)

Anyhow, please be careful!
Sexy Mom wrote
Have to stop or I'll choke on my own tears. Thanks for listening.
You poor thing. Hugs! Have courage. Do are dealing with SO MUCH, and doing so well!
Madame X (detail), John Singer Sargent, 1883–84, oil on canvas, 82 1/8 x 43 1/4 in. (208.6 x 109.9 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.
Mme.X Mme.X
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Mr Wibble
I want to reply but just spent all my time replying to SM, and maybe some of those comments respond to some of yours, too.  Such as --
I've found myself considering an affair - lord knows it would be nice to have sex with a woman smaller than me
But I wanted to comment on
Mr Wibble wrote
Personally I'm giving it a year - maybe you should set a limit and stick to it.
I set a year, but that was two years ago (I think).  I did come very close to leaving, that's for sure.  But in my case, the connection emotionally and intellectually is so, so, so strong - and I am also -- how to put it? -- just plain interested in being there and seeing my husband working things out, struggling to figure himself out.  It's hard to express... he interests me, in every sense of the word, and I just don't find anyone else as interesting...

I guess my point is just that you might want to look at the whole relationship, what was the original attraction, and the nature of the friendship before the patterns became toxic and calcified...?

Best of luck, and thank you for posting your thoughts so honestly, and elegantly.
Madame X (detail), John Singer Sargent, 1883–84, oil on canvas, 82 1/8 x 43 1/4 in. (208.6 x 109.9 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.
Sexy Mom Sexy Mom
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Mme.X
Thank you Mme.X so much...it is tremendously soothing to hear someone who knows what it is explain a point of view. I know, I am well aware of what I have and what I do not. This internet friendship is just that and, while I do  not consider myself aged, I am far too old to believe in fairy tales. But it is nice...hell, it is GREAT, to be heard and not have everyone tell you how great your life is and don't you dare complain or whine. I am one to always count my blessings, which are many. It's just that there are times when I lose sight of them. I am beginning to think I married for the wrong reasons. I wanted to be considered an adult, and he was there, my best friend....he was willing too, because I fit in with the idea of wife he had. he was attracted by my unconventional ideas, but I think it's proven too much for him, at least at some moments. I have adapted my life to do what was expected and I just want to be myself and not be put down publicly for it. Believe me, I am not deluded into thinking this internet friendship is anything but that. It can't be. The temptation to believe otherwise is overwhelming but I'm keeping my feet on the ground. I know that if my marriage wasn't in the state it's in, I wouldn't contemplate the existence of this other man-whom I met by a total fluke, btw- as anything but a nice guy who reads the same books I do. I haven't ever been tempted this way in over twenty years-I've been married almost twenty-two-, I can honestly say I never looked at another man before this, I glossed over the issue, because I never thought it would get this bad, and I had soo much work to do, I literally had no time to think. Again, THANK YOU!!!! Hugs to you.
Sexy Mom Sexy Mom
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Mr Wibble
Mr. Wibble,
Thank you for the words of understanding. In the first place, you're right about the paragraphs! My excuses... I just rant on and have no consideration. I promise to look before I type. :)

My oldest son is a university student and very intelligent, a great kid...it's just that he's so worried about his dad, he's desperate, and since my efforts don't seem to have had much success, well,...he thinks we should try whatever. I've made it clear that while I firmly intend to support his dad in every way I can, I will  not brainwash him...because I can't, and it is a serious temptation to try and do it! I believe an adult can decide for himself, so it is my intention to help, not to be his willpower. What I give a year to is, unfortunately, the time it'll take for a serious problem to arise healthwise. It's been so many years already, it's a wonder nothing worse than sleep apnea has appeared. I'm trying to detach a little emotionally, because if not some days it gets grueling.

My sons do admit that it's their dad's issue, that the rest of the family are in good health, but I know that it affects them more than they can say or may be willing to let on.

I don't know what the future holds in store, I just hope whatever it is, I can take it with grace, if only for the sake of my boys and mom.

Again, thanks, and hugs to you. I can imagine how you feel.
poolboy poolboy
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

Your oldest son is old enough to understand that addicted people have to change from within, and external forces and people have no lasting impact or effect. It up to your hubby to pull himself out of this habit.

Re: internet friend. Kinda shaky, but kinda safe having the anonymity. I'd say stick to real people, when possible, be discreet and only move forward with what your comfort level is. We all need affection and need to feel like we're not tied to a dying albatross. We need to soar, be it through projects, relationships, friendships. I've absolutely no problem with us stepping out on those who've determined that we must live a life unwanted and unfulfilled.

Divorce: I'm beyond my deadline already, by about a year, I believe. We've some serious financial things that cannot be left behind. It looks like I'll be on a five year plan now, unless I can find a few hundred thousand dollars laying around (not likely). She's in the same shape as when we had the talk (actually the 3rd, most blunt version of the talk). I've a reference for a divorce attorney, I just need to talk to him for direction.
Sexy Mom Sexy Mom
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

Poolboy, I can see you understand the situation. I agree with you, my son will just have to think again. I am already-and have been for years-cooking healthy and shopping carefully.
I lost 9 kgs., something like 16 lbs I think, in the hope that it would motivate him. It hasn't. And not only has it not motivated him, it seems to have done the opposite. It's made him feel worse. Or so it seems...People tell him he should be thrilled at having an attractive wife and he just shrugs it off, jokes and plays me down. This he's done for years, the playing me down, even publicly-especially in public, now that I think of it. He seems to make false starts and I used to get my hopes up, but now I'm wary. I haven't seen the change in attitude, which I did see years ago when he lost a lot of weight and we supported him unconditionally. But since it didn't get us anywhere in the long run...well, I suppose it doesn't matter.

About the internet friend, it's pretty safe as long as I keep it this way, and I don't intend to upgrade it for now. This man is, as Mme. X said, passionate but gentlemanly, as we have both agreed it is best to keep things at the level they are now for both our sakes. He's single and lots younger, we have lots in common, in spite of living on opposite sides of the world, and we both know our paths are not meant to cross-we've said it. I would not feel comfortable, for the moment, to try looking for someone who I could actually meet. It is not my intention...for now. I want to know that if this doesn't work out, I have tried everything and more, and given it time enough.

I feel for my husband...I UNDERSTAND him. But that understanding  has been used against me, because whenever I complained, however slightly, I heard "I thought you understood me..." and got a face full of reproach. In my case, understanding and hoping for the best and just getting on from day to day hasn't worked. I've been going to counseling for eight months to see if I was doing something wrong, or overlooking an obvious solution. I wasn't.

I am not leaving, for now. It is not in plans. However, I can't say I'll never leave. I understand your situation and sometimes I wonder about how my life would change if I left. Yes, the financial issues are there for us too. But lately I've begun to have the nightmare of my hubby in a wheelchair and me chained to it. Not a nice perspective, but unfortunately a possible one...

Hugs to you! Don't rush out of your marriage but don't stay if you just can't wait anymore and you feel there's nothing left to work on. Good luck.
Mme.X Mme.X
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

Sexy Mom wrote
He's single and lots younger, we have lots in common, in spite of living on opposite sides of the world...
And your kids are college age?  [Slap to forehead]  Okay, forget everything I said and just go for it!

No, wait.  You've caught me on a bad day.  (And who knows what "just go for it" would entail, anyhow).  But the possibility does rather crystalize your domestic situation and force you to articulate to yourself what positive force makes you stay: is it the friendship, the attraction, the principle, the value, the memories, the hopes?  Or the fear?

When I was in a similar situation (except for the "he's single" part... a big difference), I found I wanted to keep the home problem (whether or not I wanted to leave) very, very separate from the alternative embodied by Mr. Temptation (what I would leave for).  Tangling the two together seems very messy.  I was clear-headed enough to realize that my feelings for him weren't just about him.  To this day, I sometimes have a recurring dream that he is supposed to show up and doesn't.  I take that to mean that, on some deep level in my soul, he is an absence, a place holder -- that however intimate and full our conversations were, I still wasn't seeing him for who he really was, or what he would have deserved.  (Or it could mean that he didn't care for me after all).

Anyhow, back to you: it is troubling that your husband consistently denigrates you in public.  My husband wigs out (big time) once in a blue moon, but most of the time it feels to me that he is my biggest supporter, understands me, wishes me the best, and feels genuinely despondent about failing  in one major area...

Question: does your husband think he's being supportive, or does he admit that he puts you down?
Madame X (detail), John Singer Sargent, 1883–84, oil on canvas, 82 1/8 x 43 1/4 in. (208.6 x 109.9 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.
Sexy Mom Sexy Mom
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

Yes, my oldest son is in college and my younger is in high school. My mom is in.her late 80s. This guy is, as you described in your post, passionate and gentlemanly. I know for a fact he feels the same because we've discussed it a lot of times. I don't want to rush anything as yet...the memories are there, the friendship...but It's fading..and fast. I wouldn't want to actually meet this man because then I couldn't go back to the life I have now, ...yes, fear too. And the feeling that I'd be depriving him of choices, as he's so much younger. Even if he was willing to do this, I wouldnt want it on my conscience. I wait...I'm not really sure for what. But for now...I still wait. Yes, my hubby thinks he's supportive. He puts me down but jokingly so I can't take offense or if I do, someone always sides with him ,cos he's so funny
Mme.X Mme.X
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Mr Wibble
Mr Wibble wrote
The ones that annoy me the most though are where the fat spouse is ditched and then slims down; that's just evil. If you weren't prepared to make an effort when together and you do after separation, what does that say about the contempt that you hold towards your erstwhile partner.
I would read it a bit differently:  that the weight is disclosed for what it truly was:  a buffer against intimacy in a relationship that was problematical to begin with, a fact that the fat spouse lacked the self-awareness to recognize or the self-governance to handle any other way.

If my husband and I separated and he slimmed down, I would think: Honey -- Why didn't you get out of here sooner? I'd be happy for him.  Perhaps also frustrated at years lost, but still, fundamentally happy for him, and relieved.  To know.

Your comment also imagined that the fat spouse as "ditched."  Well, if they're ditched, isn't that all the more reason not to begrudge them any subsequent weight loss?  They're gone, out of one's life,  good luck t'ya ... what difference does it make anymore?

The difference would only lie in wanting to punish them somehow, and that doesn't seem right to me -- the unabashed schadenfreude of it.  It's one thing to have legitimate concerns about one's needs and one's attractions, which one can and should vent on an anonymous blog, in full freedom and with sympathetic affirmation, trying to figure things out and work things out, and perhaps making the decision to leave; it's another thing just to want to make one's fat spouse miserable.  They're already miserable.  If leaving them would actually help, I say, Godspeed.
Madame X (detail), John Singer Sargent, 1883–84, oil on canvas, 82 1/8 x 43 1/4 in. (208.6 x 109.9 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.
Mary Mary
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Sexy Mom
  Sexy Mom
 Hey SM- out of all the posters in here- your the one I wish most I could  just pop you and your mum under my wing and land you both on a nice ocean front  beach house and pop a few mil into your accounts and let the others sit and think--- like forever.

 The reason you feel attracted  to your internet friend is most likely he gets you and has time for your thoughts - your feelings and your comments.!

  Now I have read several of your posts  and can say i find you a interesting person.  I feel you have been abused by your hubby  for so long you do even see it as abuse.  Fat people often vent on others-- especially  the ones they are closet too.

 It is a cry for help.  That doesn't mean you should have to put up with it ongoing. You work two jobs and look after your mother + the house.

 Your amazing  strong and wonderful  & dont you forget it.  I keep saying this to all the posters but your the number one target  of my message.


 Think about leaving him for good.  I know its  a big move but just talk to mum about it.  Dont feel guilty having your internet friend either.  They really should not be knowing who you chat with thats your private business.

 Why you do feel that nothing can come of it. You just dont know.

 Dreams can come true and my advise is-- if you meet somebody who treats you with the respect  you deserve - go for it & take Mum with you. Failing that - there is a big house in Australia  where you both welcome  on the Gold Coast to stay as long as you like!

 You keep your chin up and stand up fr yourself too.  Check this internet guy out- I have a feeling  he really likes you.


 You are strong and wonderful & dont you forget that!








Mary Mary
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Mme.X
Hey Mme,
 Your the eternal optimist  but a very nice one and a good one.

 For the 1st time ever - i will have to disagree with you.  I feel sexy Mum has many more issues to deal with than him just being overweight .

 Sometimes it doesn't get better. People can only take so much.

From reading between the lines this guy even if he lost weight isn't going to change  to a kind and loving hubby. He has it would seem much  bigger  issues that no doubt help to  put on the weight.

 Sure internet friends must be approached carefully  but many people these days met on the net married  and live happily.

 I think she should put herself out there  and there is always somebody nice as well as not nice.

 Maybe its not him- maybe it is.  Maybe shed be better off by herself  for a year or so with her mum.

 I dont think- i know she deserves better-- a lot better! Same applies to you.  Dont be too scared to  love yourself first.

 Blessings to you both.
Sexy Mom Sexy Mom
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In reply to this post by Mary
Oh please, Mary! Thank you so much for your words, you have no idea how good you made me feel with your kind words of support. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Things are just...going. My husband isn't a bad person, he just doesn't see that this issue has lots of ramifications. Not just future and health. If he manages to lose a few pounds, he's in a better mood. If not..he's just bugged. He's a good father, but my younger son is starting to show that he doesnt want to be like his dad, he's giving up candy-because he feels It's good for him and as a way of letting me know that he doesn't want me to be upset. If there's one positive thing coming out of this, It's the fact that my sons are getting the message that they should take care of themselves.

Thanks again for your words of support. It means a lot to have someone understand you. Hugs from the opposite side of the world. .  
Mme.X Mme.X
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In reply to this post by Mary
Hello, Mary.  Your reply to SM is very supportive.  But I was wondering:  have you kicked your friend out of your house?  Why not, if not?

That question might help answer why giving the easy advice of "Just leave them" is not actually so easy to do in practice...

Take care.
Madame X (detail), John Singer Sargent, 1883–84, oil on canvas, 82 1/8 x 43 1/4 in. (208.6 x 109.9 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.
Sexy Mom Sexy Mom
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Mme.X,
You are so right, leaving is not an  easy option. I just feel I have to give it every possible chance. When the day is good, it works ok, though I have been wondering...even if he did get the message and did something effective about his weight, I don't know if it would restore the worn out feelings. I say worn out and not broken because it's how I feel. Not everything is bad. We still talk about other things, but I'm not getting any closer to knowing what the issues behind his weight are. I can guess, but it's just a guess. If he doesn't actually acknowledge them, even if it's not to me, we're nowhere closer to solving them. And I'd always thought of the weight as the cause of the trouble. Now I realize it's the consequence, but I don't know what's behind it.

He's not always dismissive of me, he seems to sense when he's getting close to my limit and stops, just in case.

As for my internet friend, like Mary rightly guessed, yes, he does like me a lot...but there's too many differences, the basic one -big one for me- being a 17-year age gap. That is not going to change, even if all else did. I would not want him to give up having kids, for example, and I certainly don't want to have more as my youngest is high school age. He has said clearly that if I were single and closer to his age, he would definitely want to meet me and see how we got along. He also said that we would be really good together as we share so many interests and points of view, in spite of such big differences in age, culture, etc...He's been my biggest support this past year, always a gentleman, always telling me to treat my husband right, and to treat myself right too. He could have made lots of negative comments of my husband, and to his credit has made none, no matter what I told him. I think it speaks volumes about his personality.

It's really frustrating to want to help someone who doesn't want to be helped, as all of you know. That has worn away part of my feelings for my hubby. I don't know if I'll get them back even if he does something.

Thanks to all of you for your support and I hope your week goes fine. Hugs!!
Mme.X Mme.X
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Mary
Hi, again.  This morning's been a tangle of people missing the reply the other is typing as one posts...

Thanks again for your kind words - and it is fine if we disagree.  I do think, though, that it is still more complicated than you're giving SM or myself credit for, and that "loving oneself first" is, too.  I am not a martyr.  Yes, I've gone without sex for longer than I like, or perhaps should have.  Yes, those years are gone.  But: I have a husband who is a wonderful father, and who makes me laugh as hard as anyone, who is board with not have internet at home (am at office), nor a t.v., who shares my love of classical music and who tolerates my wincing dislike of a lot of other music (it's not a moral thing with me; I don't care about arguing over what music is "better"; it's just that I'm noise-sensitive and the stuff that most people listen to gives me physical pain; I imagine that would be hard for a lot of people to live with), and who is as endlessly interesting on the history of everything as anyone could ever be.  Okay, okay, I get no sex.  But doesn't this other stuff count as sex?  Well, okay then, no.  But, well, sort of?  In the complex calculus of any relationship, who knows how to calculate these things?

While I agree that SM and I should both be open to our options, I don't agree that our situations are clear cut, or that anyone can advise us what to do except ourselves...

Still, I give you warm thanks and hope that you are doing well...

Madame X (detail), John Singer Sargent, 1883–84, oil on canvas, 82 1/8 x 43 1/4 in. (208.6 x 109.9 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.
Mme.X Mme.X
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Sexy Mom
Hi, SM!  It really has been a morning of simultaneous postings, so I didn't see yours until now.

[Note to everyone: okay, just let me post this one last reply, and then I'll shut up for a while!]

Sexy Mom wrote
When the day is good, it works ok, though I have been wondering...even if he did get the message and did something effective about his weight, I don't know if it would restore the worn out feelings. I say worn out and not broken because it's how I feel. Not everything is bad. We still talk about other things, but I'm not getting any closer to knowing what the issues behind his weight are. I can guess, but it's just a guess. If he doesn't actually acknowledge them, even if it's not to me, we're nowhere closer to solving them. And I'd always thought of the weight as the cause of the trouble. Now I realize it's the consequence, but I don't know what's behind it.
Yes, yes, yes, to all of that.  I'm feel exactly the same way.  Sometimes I wonder, okay, I spend all this time thinking, 'If he only lost weight ... if he only went back to the dentist ...' but what if he did all of that, and I wasn't in the end actually all that interested?  It's a horrific thought to me.  But it does call up my adolescence ...  I would have these huge and dramatic crushes on guys, and eventually they would ask me out, and then they'd kiss me, and I'd think, blech.  Whereas, with my husband, there was something about him that made me want to keep kissing, etc.  But what if that part has disappeared?  What if, in the end, it just took longer to get to the blech?  
Sexy Mom wrote
As for my internet friend, like Mary rightly guessed, yes, he does like me a lot...but there's too many differences, the basic one -big one for me- being a 17-year age gap. That is not going to change, even if all else did. I would not want him to give up having kids, for example, and I certainly don't want to have more as my youngest is high school age.
Hoo boy, yup.  Ve-r-r-r-y complicated.  I actually know a woman who had a sexual relationship with a, er, young man 17 years older than herself, when she was 34.  She spoke (still speaks, actually) very passionately about it, as having given everything up for the best sex of her life.  And she did give everything up, since she lost her job when his parents found out.  Now your guy is not quite that young, but still, when I see her heartbreak (despite her maintaining that she still supports doing it all for love) and her situation, I think you are wise to affirm the best parts which you cherish (and will be forever grateful for) without turning it all, well, very complicated.
Sexy Mom wrote
He's been my biggest support this past year, always a gentleman, always telling me to treat my husband right, and to treat myself right too. He could have made lots of negative comments of my husband, and to his credit has made none, no matter what I told him. I think it speaks volumes about his personality.
Indeed.  And also about your own deepest desire, which is ultimately for a noble relationship.  

I have no idea what you should do, if leaving would be appropriate, if meeting the Kid would work or not, in the end, but I do think that you have some gift, some action, some purpose that needs the inspiration of a noble soul, and that in person or not, your Kid has given you that inspiration.  Like Dante's Beatrice (notice he never mentions his wife once in the 100 cantos of his Commedia!) who inspires him on his journey, even though he never consummated his love for her physically, such a soul can be more sustaining and erotic than most of us imagine.

There.  Now I'll stop.  Sorry everyone for monopolizing the forum today.  Now I have other work to get to, I promise.
Madame X (detail), John Singer Sargent, 1883–84, oil on canvas, 82 1/8 x 43 1/4 in. (208.6 x 109.9 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.
Mary Mary
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Sexy Mom
Hi Sexy Mum,

 You dont have to thank me  for writing what i see & feel. But Tar anyway. My post wasn't meant either to bag  your  husband - but just for once to focus on you.
 Remember you? I hope your Mum is well too btw. You full of love and kindness and typical excuses  for the ones you love.

 Guess thats pretty common in the role of the care giver.  You care for your grown up kids- you care for your mum and you care for your hubby too.

 Thats just great- but who cares for you?   I  want you to consider  the crazy idea just for a day that you sit back and put your feet up - have your meals cooked for you- your washing and ironing done.  Perhaps a cool drink or coffee brought to you as the click of your figures.

 Just imagine  it for one day. Oh and your allowed to say  anything you like to hubby-- I mean anything. Get all those old  feelings where hes really annoyed you off your chest.  Treat him as he does you at the times he is in a dark mood because hes depressed about his weight.

 The key however to doing this - is YOU must really enjoy it:)

 I am not asking you to do it-- just pretend in your mind  how things would be.  You sound very tired and 2 jobs and looking after Mum & the house really is almost too much for anybody over a long period.


 The first thing you should know is your not alone . The second thing is that  many  men are selfish.

 The 3rd is  that probably wont change until you put your foot down.

 Try to make small changes to start off with.  I am sure hes not a bad guy just been allowed to get away with dumping on you too long.

 Its great the kids are learning and you might find it helpful   to also ask for their help at times.

  Hugs back & I am not going anywhere. Always up for a chat.

 Be kind to YOU first .





Mary Mary
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Re: The Talk, So Far, No Reaction

In reply to this post by Sexy Mom
Hi SM

 He probably is very funny. A lot of big people are.  You cant help but laugh even if you shouldnt.
 Its often a defense  from within them.

 As for your internet friend-- it doesn't hurt to meet him - then keep your options open is all i am saying

  You might decide your hubby is wonderful after all if you dont like him. Or you may both decide to just remain good friends for life.

 Your allowed to have friends you know.  Either way ,  try having a bit of fun  and know its ok.

 I keep saying we all only live once.
 Love you first and everything else will work out - i promise
 But you must stick to the rules.

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